243 | Messages from Money with Ellen Rogin

Hilary Hendershott: Well, hey there, money lover. Today, I have an incredible guest named Ellen Rogin. She is not only a CPA and a CFP, she’s also a money expert, a financial intuitive, a New York Times bestselling author of her first book called Picture Your Prosperity and her new book, Messages from Money: How to Stress Less, Prosper More, and Reshape Your Relationship with Money. She does Messages from Money consultations. She connects with the energy of money and delivers messages that help her clients achieve happier, more abundant lives. And she was a traditional financial advisor for 25 years before she successfully sold her wealth management firm. So, lots to talk about today. Ellen, welcome to the show.

Ellen Rogin: Oh, Hilary, I’m so excited to be here with you.

Hilary Hendershott: Will you talk a little bit about your career journey from financial auditor to wealth manager to money intuitive?

Ellen Rogin: Yeah. So, as you said, I don’t even barely ever talk about the fact that I was an auditor for a very short amount of time. It was not a career that I think about much because it really wasn’t for me. It was looking back at past mistakes. I found it kind of boring. I decided I wanted to become a financial advisor because I like telling people what to do, and I thought the worst that could happen was that I’d learn how to handle my own finances. And what I found when I first started in practice that I was most fascinated about was how people made decisions around money and what their thoughts and beliefs were about money. And this was really when the area of behavioral finance was really just starting. So, people weren’t talking about our attitudes and beliefs about money like they are now. But I always thought it was so curious how some people could have lots of money and they could worry a lot, and other people maybe had more modest lifestyles, and they were super content, and it wasn’t the money that made them happy.

So that’s what I was most fascinated about during my entire career. And during the last half of the time, I was a financial advisor, I started doing more speaking and writing and really realized that I felt like I wanted to have a broader impact, really on the world and how people think about their money more than I could have with a certain number of people that could sit across the table from me. And, yeah, so I made a big decision to leave my successful practice to do more speaking, more writing. And then near the end of that career, I also realized that I had the ability to really tap into my intuition and be able to understand more what was happening with people; with their relationship with money.

Hilary Hendershott: Is there more to that story that you want to share? How do you realize that money talks to you? Is that a good question or a bad one?

Ellen Rogin: It’s a good question. It’s kind of like my Genesis story. So, when I was an advisor, I think I was always intuitive but didn’t realize that’s what I was doing. I mean, I would be able to say to people like I know if someone’s going to be okay financially when I don’t even have to know about their numbers. Of course, I ran projections for them and did traditional financial planning things at the time. Then I had this experience. It was 2017 when I was at a conference. There was a bunch of speakers and coaches there, and the facilitator was talking to us about intuition. And I was paired with this guy, James, and he was to think about an issue regarding money. And I had my hands on his shoulders. I was behind him and when he turned around, I was supposed to deliver a message around money. And I should have asked you this ahead of time. Is it okay if I swear?

Hilary Hendershott: You could swear.

Ellen Rogin: Okay. So, James turns around, and out of my mouth comes, “F*ck you for thinking that you can’t be spiritual and have me in your life. I don’t even want to be around you,” as if I was talking from money. And he pulls out from his shirt and he said, “Ellen, this is the patron saint of poverty.” Now, I’m not quite sure why anyone would wear a pendant like that, but he took it…

Hilary Hendershott: Don’t wear that.

Ellen Rogin: You don’t have to be intuitive to know that’s not smart. But so, he takes it off, and then I grab his hand and I start walking with him and I’m like, “Oh, now I want to be with you.” And it just woke both of us up. Like, I like to swear. I don’t do it at people, people I don’t know, and in a professional setting.

Hilary Hendershott: Sure. That was bold.

Ellen Rogin: And I think it woke us both up. I’m like, “What was that? That was not me talking.” Afterwards, I spoke with the facilitator, a guy named Gary Stewart. And he said, “What was it?” He was, “Oh, that was just your intuition coming out.” I was like, “Oh.” And after that point, I started kind of refining it. My process now is I journal with money, the energy of money, and I get messages for people. The cool thing is that the follow-up on that story was James and I were both speaking at a meeting, and I said, “Would it be okay if I shared that story?” He goes, “Oh my gosh, yes, Ellen. Ever since that time, everything changed in my business.” He looked different. He was super successful. He said, “I have clients lined up around the block.” Yeah. So, I think that happened so abruptly for both of us to kind of have a wake-up call. I don’t swear at people anymore in those settings. It’s all affirming and it’s not like I don’t want to scare people that they’re going to get…that money is going to swear at them.

Hilary Hendershott: I don’t even know where to go with that one. I’m just going to let it be. I appreciate a good swear every now and then. Your money reading sessions, what are they called?

Ellen Rogin: Messages from Money.

Hilary Hendershott: Sessions. Are those one-on-one?

Ellen Rogin: They’re one-on-one. Sometimes I’ll do them with partners, like business partners, but they’re typically one-on-one. What I found over the years and my left brain CFP/CPA brain doesn’t understand this but there’s transformation that happens at those meetings and sometimes I understand why like I might do a process to clear a limiting belief away for someone, but sometimes it’s just things come out for the person, they get more clarity. Something transforms. And when I talk to people six months or a year later, they’ll be like, “Oh, I don’t worry about money anymore,” or, “I’ve quadrupled my fees because now I’m more clear,” or just different things for different people. And I don’t totally get how that happens, honestly, but it does, and it makes me feel good.

You know, it’s different than when I was doing financial planning or like what you do with your clients, which is so important and helpful. You run projections and you give them guidance on specific money things. This is going at the process at a different level to help clear things away so that some of those, in the real world, things can show up for them.

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah. I’m super curious about all of that but let’s see how this conversation evolves. I don’t want to go off on a different path. Your book begins with a foreword written by money. Did you channel this?

Ellen Rogin: I did. And I have to say, Hilary, before you hit record, we were talking about how in the traditional industry that I came out of and I still work in, and I do a lot of speaking in financial services. I was super quiet about this part of what I do for quite a long time. It was like a hidden page on my website because I didn’t want people to think I was a weirdo. And so, even the word channeled, it is but I tend not to use that because it still feels a little like, “Are people going to…?” But, yeah, I love having conversations with money, and I love when money talks back to me, which it’s usually always there for me as a guide and a guide for other people.

Hilary Hendershott: So, I have a little quote from this foreword from money. It says, “What I most want is for us to have a great relationship. I want to be your friend. As a good friend, I’ll be there for you. I won’t enable you but I’ll support you. And as in any solid relationship, you have your part to do, too.” And I was just blown away. I felt like I don’t know if a bucket of water on me or a good healthy punch in the chin there. It was like nobody points that out, right? Nobody acknowledges that it’s a reciprocal relationship. And you have responsibilities too, right? And people are like, “Pour a glass of wine and have a money date,” but nobody takes it seriously. So, can you say more about our reciprocal responsibilities with money?

Ellen Rogin: Yeah. I think that you’re 100% right on that. We think about like, “What’s money going to do for me? Is it going to show up for me? How is it there?” And yet we have a responsibility. I love to make the connection, like, if you were having a personal, even a romantic relationship with your money, how are you showing up in that? Are you just looking for money to show up for you, that you want it to be there when you want? I joke sometimes you’re just looking for a hookup. Or are you like a trusting partner for money? Are you taking care of it? Do you respect it? Are you someone who’s really envious? Like, are you that jealous partner? When something awesome happens to a friend of yours, are you judging them or jealous or are you open, accepting, and excited for them? And I find this is a really helpful way for people to start to look at what is really going on with their relationship with money.

Hilary Hendershott: I think it would be good for most listeners to really think about, how are you, like really think about, what are the things you’re doing to take care of your money? It might be worth a 20-minute think right there. And then the next couple of chapters of your book are about helping people acknowledge or identify not only how they are with money, but how they should be. And you talk about how you catch more money with honey than you do with vinegar, right? And so, what are some examples of the loving ways you recommend people talk about money that invite more money to come in?

Ellen Rogin: I think just even being aware of how you’re talking about money and what we think and what we say has a direct impact on what shows up in our lives. It’s like a filter for us. And when you speak badly about money or your relationship with money, it’s not going to move you ahead. So, Hilary, I imagine in all your years of being a financial advisor, you’ve had clients say things like, “I just don’t have a head for money,” or, “I’m really not good at this.” And I can’t imagine, I mean, maybe there’s that one person over all the years that like really isn’t, but most people have something that they’re awesome at. And it’s not that they don’t have a head for money. That would be like if we go back to the relationship thing, that would be like, I just don’t even have a head for how to even do anything, talk to my husband or my wife, or whatever it is.

Hilary Hendershott: I just don’t know how to be faithful.

Ellen Rogin: And our words really matter and how we think. I want to just share a quick story. And I think this is in the book, but I’m not sure. My husband was stressed about something he was working on for a real estate project and really stressed. And you know when you could see somebody like, almost like spinning in their head, they don’t have to say a word. And we were walking in this little town called Black Mountain outside of Asheville, where we’ve spent a lot of time. And it’s cute and they have all those like T-shirt shops and things. And we walk past a window with a plaque in it. And I stopped him and I said, “Oh, Steven, you should get that sign.” And he looked at me and he said, “Ellen, why would I get a sign that says, ‘Think about what could go wrong’?” And I looked at him and the sign actually said, “Think about what could go right.”

So, his thinking clouded what he actually saw, and he legitimately saw, “Think about what could go wrong.” So, it’s not a small matter, like we need to be very discerning about what we’re thinking and saying about our money because I believe it absolutely matters in our ability to be successful with it and bring more money into our world.

Hilary Hendershott: I always feel a little bit taken aback when people say, “I’m not good with money” or “I can’t afford that”, right? There are just certain things that people say, and I think, it’s such a gut punch. You don’t realize what you’re doing to your bank account when you say those things, right? You mentioned earlier that in your Messages from Money. Oh, it’s the same name as your book. Okay. You mentioned before that you help people clear limiting beliefs. Do you have a process for that that works consistently?

Ellen Rogin: Well, I can give a suggestion for limiting thoughts. The answer to your question, do I have a process that works consistently, it varies by person and what their openness is and what they need. So, sometimes a meditation will come through and that will help clear it away. Sometimes for people, it’s just bringing it to the forefront, or sometimes it’s not even limiting. Maybe they’re aware and they’re like, “Oh, I have a limiting belief,” but I’ll intuit that it’s not actually the belief that they thought it was and it’s something else. And sometimes it’s not even our stuff. Like, we inherit a lot of limiting beliefs about money. We develop our subconscious beliefs, Bruce Lipton says, between conception and age seven. So, like, so much of this stuff gets programmed into us before we’re even aware it is or before our parents are even aware unless they have to be super aware people.

And so, sometimes it’s taking things out and just putting some light on and someone will go, “Well, that doesn’t even make any sense.” One example I can think of, of kind of pulling it out, I had a consultation with a woman who was a business owner, really successful business. She goes, “Yeah. Well, I just could never be in a relationship and run my business.” I was like, “Hm?”

Hilary Hendershott: My goodness.

Ellen Rogin: And that was truly a belief. I said, “Oh no, no, no. That’s not true. Of course you can. They’re not mutually exclusive.” And just even that conversation shifted things. The next time I did a consultation with her, she was in a great relationship. I don’t know that she gave me credit for that but I took that in my own mind. It’s like, “Thank you. You’re welcome for that.” But sometimes there’s goofy things that we don’t even realize don’t make sense because they’re just the water we swim in. And that’s the thing about beliefs. They feel true to us but a belief is just a thought you’ve thought over and over. And if it were true, everyone would have the same belief. And we know that that’s not the case for everyone.

Hilary Hendershott: Right. And I thought it was… In the same vein, you have a section that talks about the word abracadabra. So, what’s the meaning of abracadabra?

Ellen Rogin: Yeah, so, abracadabra has Hebrew and Aramaic roots, and it translates into, “I will create as spoken.” So, our words really matter, like that abracadabra, it is like magic. Now, having said that, I had mentioned I was going to share something when you have a thought that isn’t good, what you can do with that, quick and easy, is to say, “Cancel. Clear.” So, having a thought. I’m trying to think someone said something to me today, and I was like, “Cancel. Clear.” I think it was something like, well, I don’t know if they never get a new client or something, I’m like, “Cancel. Clear.” Cancel that thought, clear it away, and replace it with something else instead. And with this, I will create as spoken. It might be helpful for us also to talk about affirmations because I have a mixed feeling about them.

I think it is important to train your brain to be thinking of things that you most want to have happen. And if you keep saying to yourself something that you know doesn’t make any sense, I don’t think that’s helpful. Like, sometimes I’ll hear people suggesting that people just say, “I have $1 million in my accounts. I have a million dollars…” And if they don’t, I think the next thing that they’re really ingraining is, “That’s B.S. Like, of course, I don’t.” But you could say, “I’m doing everything I can to build my wealth,” or, “I’m learning each and every day. I’m learning how to be better and better with my wealth.” Or there’s something that you can get behind.

Hilary Hendershott: “Profitable clients or contracts flow to me frequently and happily.” Something like this. I actually thought of, in terms of lying to yourself, I last week cleaned out a house we’re selling and I found this $2 bill that I had written $500,000 on because some speaker told me to do it. And I think I had pinned it to my bulletin board for a while, but I laughed when I saw it.

Let’s talk about wealth building. There’s a section of your book on investing, and I think it’s no secret that our emotions can lead us really astray when it comes to, especially market downturns, which, as we air this episode, we’re actually maybe in a bull market. So, maybe you’re not kind of present to that feeling right now but I see it over and over again. But when account balances go down, that tends to elicit negative feelings. So, if you’re talking with someone who really wants to improve her relationship to investing and enable wealth building but she has that kind of fear and anxiety, what would you say to her?

Ellen Rogin: I have left-brain and right-brain things coming up at the same time. Let me start with the left brain. That’s the benefit of having an advisor like you, that we are emotional beings and that someone doesn’t sell at the bottom of the market or do something that doesn’t make sense and you could talk to someone and say, “Should I be doing something different that it’s part of a whole plan?” And that’s why I believe so much in the planning process and having professional advice. Okay. Left brain answer. Right brain answer, although I actually think it’s proven out so left brain answer too, worry is a really bad financial strategy. We feel like it’s natural, of course, we would worry, but studies on stress and worry, there’s a book called Scarcity, and the researchers found that when someone’s back is really up against the wall financially, your IQ actually drops, so you cannot make a good decision.

So, this is not just like, I mean, we know stress is bad for your health. People worry about money all the time. That’s what drove me to sell my practice, is I want to have people have a better relationship with their money. It may feel justified to worry, but really it’s not helpful at all to do that.

Hilary Hendershott: Thank you. Yeah. I always feel like when I say something like that to someone, the question, the automatic question is, well, of course, there are some people who didn’t worry or did worry, and they still lost it all, right? The sort of the precursor to earning the right to not worry, of course, comes when you have a diversified portfolio. So, I guess that’s the contingency there is like, assuming the right thing’s in the account, you’ve earned the right to allow yourself to not worry. Okay. Thank you for that. You have a framework called Prosperity on Purpose. Will you share that with my listeners?

Ellen Rogin: Yeah, I’d love to. So, the first part is being aware. And being aware is, as we talked about earlier, what are you thinking? What are you saying about money? What are you feeling? And it’s natural to feel nervous. I’m not saying like shun that. Just let it go or talk to somebody and get some good advice. Have a way of dealing with that. So, what are you thinking, feeling, and saying to yourself about money? That’s the awareness part. I’m feeling compelled also to talk about actually meditation as a financial strategy because in that awareness part, like it is a reality that sometimes we feel worried about money. If you have a contemplative practice like meditation or a breath practice, or being in nature, or laughing like some way to lower that stress is really important. So, that’s aware.

The second part is clear. So, clear is about clearing where you want to go. Having a financial plan, that whole process helps you become more clear in other areas. And then also using your brain as a tool for visualization and that mental rehearsal, which I’m a big proponent of. And people don’t think of it in business. They might think of mental rehearsal like if you’re a golfer or a tennis player. It’s well-established that for athletic things, it’s really helpful. It is helpful for your business and your life as well. So, for example, if you have someone who’s going in and asking for a raise, it can feel nervous to do that, but to do some mental rehearsal, like how do you want to show up? How do you want to say this? How would you imagine, in the best scenario, this other person is going to react to this?

And that process helps ease the way to get better results. And you’re really programming a part of your brain called the reticular activating system. So, I love that. I love that you had that, whether it worked or not, but that bill that you had up on your bulletin board was really about having visual cues. And even if you weren’t conscious like what that meant, it helped you feel more comfortable with a half a million dollars or that coming in at once or whatever your goal was around that. So, in my book that I wrote before Messages from Money, Picture Your Prosperity, we have people create prosperity pictures, which is like a vision board with just some more structure around it. It’s a way to create a visual financial plan. And that’s what you’re doing there is really programming your brain.

Hilary Hendershott: Oh, I love the vision board. That’s a great idea. I should do that with clients.

Ellen Rogin: So, that’s aware and clear. The third part is care. We live in a material world. It’s great to talk about visualization and meditation. And, your money wants you to take care of it. So, this is knowing where it’s going, investing wisely, saving well, like all the things that are the tactical things about taking care of your money in the real world. And the last part is share. And this is around generosity. I believe that generosity precedes prosperity versus I’m going to give back when I have money. I think that when we loosen our grip on money and help someone, whether it’s a family member or a charity or someone you run into out in the world that needs your help, it helps loosen our grip, allows more to flow in, but also reduces stress. People give and they volunteer and they donate because it feels good. It’s kind of the dirty little secret of it but it makes us feel good to be out there helping other people.

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah. I think about the metaphor of having a cup that’s full and overflowing. Most people who haven’t yet achieved financial freedom assume there’s not enough money, but you can create it so there is enough money to give, right? I had a monthly giving, I guess, you could say allowance, budget, really, and I did it every month. I mean, I remember one time it was the 30th of the month and I’m standing in front of Walgreens. My mother-in-law is to my right, and I’m handing a $20 bill to a guy who’s a homeless person. And she goes, “Are you just doing your good deed for the month?” I said, “No, it’s my budget. I have to do it.” And that isn’t the way I gave every month but it led me to experiencing that I had more than enough money.

Hilary Hendershott: Ellen, as you know, I ask everyone who comes on the Love Your Money show a signature question. I know that you had a special download from money on this question, but let me ask it. If your money were writing you a love note, what would it be thanking you or complimenting you for?

Ellen Rogin: First, Hilary, I want to say I love that this is your signature question because most people don’t think about a loving relationship with money, and the fact you’re asking it is opening the space for people to be really aware that, of course, this can happen. So, I love that you’re doing that, and the name of your show. It’s just all beautiful. So, prepping for this, I was journaling with money. I’m like, “What would money say to me?” Because I do this often with money, but not necessarily with that specific question. And what came back was, I wrote, “Hi, money. What would you want me to know? What would you say in our love letter?” “I love that you are so grateful and generous. I love that you share with others about the importance of our relationship and that you are guided to reduce suffering around me. I’m very grateful that we talk often and that you trust in our relationship.”

Hilary Hendershott: Wow.

Ellen Rogin: And then I asked, “Is there a message you would like me to share with Hilary’s audience, something you’d like them to know or hear?” And this is what came back. “I love them. I want to be their partner for good. Please know they can talk to me and I’ll send messages back. It might show up in different ways for you. Sometimes it’s a sign. Sometimes it’s a thought that will pop into your head. For some, we’ll communicate well by journaling. But I am here to guide and support you. Please know this. I’d also like to remind you that there is nothing to worry about. Or better said, worry will bring nothing helpful. Breathe, trust, be generous, and notice what is working well. This will be helpful for lowering your angst.”

Hilary Hendershott: Oh my, I’m blown away. I’m actually going to have my editor play that again. I want people to hear it twice.

Ellen Rogin: I wrote, “Hi, money. What would you want me to know? What would you say in our love letter?” “I love that you are so grateful and generous. I love that you share with others about the importance of our relationship in that you are guided to reduce suffering around me. I’m very grateful that we talk often and that you trust in our relationship.”

And then I asked, I said, “Is there a message you would like me to share with Hilary’s audience, something you’d like them to know or hear?” And this is what came back. “I love them. I want to be their partner for good. Please know they can talk to me and I’ll send messages back. It might show up in different ways for you. Sometimes it’s a sign. Sometimes it’s a thought that will pop into your head. For some, we’ll communicate well by journaling. But I am here to guide and support you. Please know this. I’d also like to remind you that there is nothing to worry about. Or better said, worry will bring nothing helpful. Breathe, trust, be generous, and notice what is working well. This will be helpful for lowering your angst.”

Hilary Hendershott: Money lover, if you just heard that, that is incredible. Take that to heart. I’ve never received a gift for my listeners like that through someone on my show. Thank you so much. That was beautiful. I’m blown away. We’re going to have everyone go buy your book. Correct? Is that what we’re having them do? Where can they find out more about you on the interwebs?

Ellen Rogin: Let me just say one thing about the book, and I don’t want it to sound too self-promotional, but I’ll say money is helping me promote this. What I love about this book is people actually read the whole thing, like I thought for Picture of Prosperity, it’s a really good book. There’s a lot more. It’s thicker. There’s a lot more traditional stuff in there as well as how to think about money. This is a really fast read. I have friends who’ve said they’ve taken me on walks who read by listening. So, I’m hoping it’s really going to be helpful for anyone who goes out there and gets it. To find out more about me, you can go to either EllenRogin.com. That’s Rogin with an I-N or you can go to MessagesfromMoney.com, and that’ll give you everything you want to know about having a money session and what that looks like.

Hilary Hendershott: Love it. Get yourself a money session. Thanks for being on the show today, Ellen.

Ellen Rogin: Thank you, Hilary. I am honored to be here.