188 | Brave Thinking: How to Manifest Anything You Want with Heather Vickery

[INTRODUCTION]

Hilary Hendershott: Profit boss, I’m happy to have with me today a very special woman and friend and colleague and also a podcaster. Her name is Heather Vickery. She’s a business owner and she’s a global leader. She’s been an entrepreneur for 20 years. She’s a public speaker, and she inspires audiences and empowers attendees, in this case, listeners like you with the tools you need to live bold and successful lives. She shows you how to create balance, time management, mindfulness, and countless system strategies and boundaries. Personally, Heather is a single mom of one, two, three, four girls who left a decade-long marriage and came out personally and professionally. It says, “Yes, out of the closet,” so we’ll talk about that too. She’s the author of the Gratitude Journal: Shift Your Focus and Grow Grateful: A Gratitude Journal for Kids and Families, and the soon-to-be-released F*CK FEARLESS. I don’t swear on my podcast yet. 

Heather Vickery: Good to know in advance, Hilary. 

Hilary Hendershott: You could say the other words: Making The Brave Leap. Heather is also the host and executive producer of the Brave Files Podcast. She also has a gift for you if you listen to the end. I personally listen to her show, The Brave Files. It is epic and amazing if you want to really be inspired by the human spirit. 

[INTERVIEW]

Hilary Hendershott: Welcome to the show, Heather. 

Heather Vickery: Thank you so much. I’m really excited to be here. 

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah. So, the big story with you is that you grew up being parented by a single mom who had money scarcity and somehow you never caught it. 

Heather Vickery: Isn’t that the craziest thing? I’ve been reflecting on that really for the last several years because I have a partner who is the child of two Irish immigrants and her money scarcity, she came into it with a mess. She was like, “How is this not an issue for you?” So, I’ve really been thinking about it. You know, I can remember my mom digging through the couch cushions for change, to buy gas, to go to work. And I also remember at one point, “Mommy, why do you have to go to work?” And she said, “Well, I have to get money so we can have food and pay the rent,” and I said, “Oh, okay, okay.” And then I went and I got – I mean, I was little. I’m 46 and so this was probably in the 70s, in the late 70s, and I got my big plastic Donald Duck Bank and I said, “Mommy, you can have my money.” And I was never afraid to give my money away. I was never afraid to spend it or use it. I was never afraid that there wouldn’t be more money. and I don’t know how I didn’t catch that when we were so super poor that we were drinking concentrated juice and digging through the couch cushion. 

Hilary Hendershott: Evaporated milk.

Heather Vickery: All of those things, right? And so, somehow I must give her credit. She must have just not made it my problem. I don’t know. It’s very fascinating. So, I got out of college and I went to work for a nonprofit organization and I started doing events and I just didn’t like it. So, I was like, “Well, I’ll just start my own business.” I don’t know how to start a business. I wasn’t worried about the money. The money showed up. The money just seems to always appear before me if I just keep doing the work, keep putting it out there, and be in the right spaces and I get paid, which is awesome. I don’t know. So, I don’t have scarcity issues, but lately, I’ve really been plagued with what do I want to do with my money? How do I want to spend my money? What do I want my money to do for me? So, I don’t know if you want me to go into that or if you want to chat. 

Hilary Hendershott: Let’s come full circle like the caterpillar into the cocoon. So, I too watched The Secret and she said, “I just get checks in the mail. I just get checks in the mail.” And my girlfriend and I started saying that to each other and this is when I was broke, “I just get checks in the mail.” And, you know, sometimes you do get checks in the mail, right? 

Heather Vickery: Yeah. Sometimes you do. 

Hilary Hendershott: I started getting checks in the mail and it was like, “Oh my God, this stuff works.” 

Heather Vickery: I mean, there is something to sort of a vibration that you put out, and it’s so unquantifiable and it sounds so ridiculous. Actually, there’s a money book that I really like. I don’t know if you’re familiar with her work, but Rich As F*ck is the name of the book. She spells it out too. But I love that concept of you put the vibration out and the thing about manifestation is that you don’t just decide you want a thing and then wish and hope that it’s going to appear. We behave differently. We start doing certain things but put it in a position to get checks in the mail. 

Hilary Hendershott: Right. Well, the mixed messaging about manifestation is that it’s this magical, elusive skillset. You’re already a manifester. Look around you. Look at the iPhone you’re listening to this podcast on or the desktop that you’re watching on YouTube or the place you live in, the car you drive, the job you have. You manifested all that.

Heather Vickery: Absolutely. 

Hilary Hendershott: So, getting to you. 

Heather Vickery: Yeah. That’s the work that I do is like, “Look, reframe how you look at it. Change the lens of how you’re looking at things that change your energy and your vibration and you get more of the things that you want most.” 

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah. Well, if you look back on the actions that you took or the conversations that you had, you say, “Money shows up,” the money just shows up. Okay. But you can rewind any check that shows up on your doorstep, there was a conversation you had that created it. Have you ever thought about how your different invitations you take or ask for, doors you ask to open for you that most people don’t? 

Heather Vickery: I haven’t stopped to think about it in that way but I do know that it wasn’t magic that I did the work that I showed up and I did things I didn’t know how to do. I often do not know how to do the things that I do it. I mean, I’m a really good coach. I’m a really good speaker. I’m a really good writer. I’ve learned those skills but there are still things that digital marketing could be one of those things. I don’t know how to do it but I am going to figure out how to do it or figure out how to hire the right people to help me do it properly. And nothing. Nothing happens without showing up and putting in effort and being willing to stumble through it a little until you see something that you’re like, “Oh yeah, that’s it. I want to do more of that.” You got to kind of play the game a little bit. 

Hilary Hendershott: Okay. And there’s a lot of people who are stumbling through a lot of things but who aren’t asking to be compensated for it. Is it easy for you to ask to be compensated? Is it always there? Is it at the tip of your tongue? Are you nervous about financial conversations? Are you not nervous? Are you excited about them? Tell me how that goes for you. 

Heather Vickery: It’s a great question. Yes, all of it. Yeah. Twenty years ago, when I first started an event and wedding planning business, I started doing full planning for $2,500. By the time we shook that out hourly, it was about $1.50 an hour for how much work and effort I put into that, right? But I’d never done any of this before. I’d never sold myself. I’d never sold what I brought to the table. Asking for it, I would get the hot sweats like everybody else does I think most people do in the beginning.

Hilary Hendershott: Good to know you’re human. 

Heather Vickery: Yeah, absolutely. And here’s what I’ve discovered is that the more we do the thing that we’re most meant to do, the more comfortable we get saying, “I’m bringing this to the table for you. I can help you with this. This is how much it costs.” So, I did that. When I closed my luxury wedding planning business, I was charging $18,000 to $20,000 per event. And I had a full team. It’s never been so glad to not be in an industry in my life as I was this last year because my friends suffered so much and I love them so much. 

Hilary Hendershott: They suffered the worst. 

Heather Vickery: Oh, by far the worst. It’s been awful. But they held me so tightly when I transitioned into coaching because it was through the wedding industry that I recognized that I was already a coach, that they saw that in me long before I saw that in me because they were coming to me, “I want to try this. I want to start this. Change this. I want to transition this. Will you talk to me? I think you can help,” and I started to pay attention. And because I had already learned to trust myself and my values in asking to be properly compensated there, I was able to do that. But again, when I first started coaching, I was charging $3,500 for six months’ worth of coaching. Now, I charge $20,000 for six months’ worth of coaching. So, you got to get in and do the stuff and the more you can pay attention to what you’re bringing to the table, the more you learn, the more you know, the more you have to offer, the more value you bring, you get more comfortable asking for what you want. Now, I know that some people really struggle with that, and I think that those are folks who do have really big money scarcity stories in themselves. “Oh, am I worth asking for this?” And I kind of have them because I believe that if I show up and do this work, the money will appear. I also, if the client doesn’t book like, well, that must mean that I need that space open for something else.

And I’ll tell you a really fascinating story that I could allow it to be a really humiliating failure story that just happened literally in the last six weeks. I have a group coaching program. It’s a 12-month program called the Intentionally BRAVE Entrepreneurs. It’s a really effing great program. Really proud of it. I do a series of cohorts. I opened the doors three times a year to a very small eight-person max cohort. I’ve done that five times, very successfully. It’s been wonderful. We did it a few weeks ago. And no, nothing sold. 

Hilary Hendershott: Just a few weeks ago? 

Heather Vickery: Just a few weeks ago. We did exactly the same thing that we’ve done all the other times, and it didn’t work. And I knew. So, I do a workshop. I host a really great, it’s called the Brave Method Workshop, that’s my coaching method. And I knew going into the workshop, we didn’t have the registration. People weren’t there. My current IBE members were there and then like nine people in the room. And so, I knew like this isn’t going to – so we’re going to just do this and we’re going to be in this moment and we’re going to learn from this and figure it out. I knew it wasn’t going to sell and I sat with it afterwards and I thought, “What is in this for me?” Because it was supposed to be $100,000 launch, right? Like it was supposed to bring us a lot of money. And I thought, “Oh, I’ve hit the ceiling on this.” So, a lot of times when we fail or when we think something’s broken or it doesn’t work, we feel like we’ve gone down. And what I realized is I had taken what I was doing the way I was doing it as far as it could possibly go and it was time to crack open the ceiling and build something different and bigger, put on a second floor. 

And so, we’re completely restructuring what we do and how we do this so that we can open the cohort and we’re also restructuring the way the program is going to look. We’re offering two tracks. That one for newer entrepreneurs, one for more established entrepreneurs. So, a lot of things opened up. And if I had a cohort, I might have missed those things and I wouldn’t have had the time to dedicate to building these new things. And so, I trust that the money will appear. If I keep showing up and I listen to the people and what they want and how I can best help them, it will appear. 

Hilary Hendershott: Well, this is a very cool manifestation of the Ask principle. I have the Seven Steps to Wealth Framework and the fourth one, I think plan, ask, or the fourth one is ask. And I’m always talking about how over time you want your life to get bigger and bigger and bigger and you’ve got to ask for it but ask like shows up in a lot of ways. And so, I’m inspired by your big mindset and you should come back and let us know how your big expansion went. How did your second-floor renovation go? 

Heather Vickery: Yeah. I mean, it feels terrifying. I don’t want anybody to think because I believe that this is all really brave work, but it’s still really scary. Those things are partnered. Brave comes with fear. Maya Angelou was famous for saying, “Ask for what you want and be prepared to get it.” And to your point, I add on and it’s literally in my book that’s coming out, ask very specifically for what you want because we may often get something that we’ve asked for in a way that we didn’t want it. And so, be thoughtful and intentional about asking for what you want. 

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah. Okay. And so, how you’ve managed money in your personal life? Talk to me about how you think about personal saving. Are you happy with how you’re building your personal net worth? 

Heather Vickery: That’s a great question. That I am not skilled at. It’s something I’ve been very thoughtful about recently. I started investing a little bit recently. I am two years away from my first kid going to college, three years away from my second kid going to college. For better or for worse, my ex is pretty sure I’m off my rocker. I do feel about paying for their education the way I have already shared with you I feel about money. I do not yet know how we will pay for all of that because my oldest wants to go to UCLA. We live in Chicago. I will say tuition on that is no joke. I just feel very peaceful with like this will appear. It will appear. If I keep showing up and doing what I’m supposed to be doing, it will appear. It doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t like to have a better savings situation. And one of the things that you and I chatted about before we started is that where my relationship and internal conversation about money has been shifting in the last few months is I realized that I hadn’t gotten to the levels that I wanted to get to because I wasn’t playing in a big enough sandbox. 

I was spending 5,000, 10,000 here and there hiring people to do things but those people hadn’t done for themselves what I wanted them to do for me. And it was time to pony up. And so, I recently made some investments that are equivalent to more than an annual salary for most average Americans because I believe that I will make what I want to make before I have to pay off all that debt. I really hope I’m right. 

Hilary Hendershott: So, give me a big-level picture of what you, well, what’s something you would spend almost six figures on or whatever it is? Something around that number, right? I mean, that’s what most people make. 

Heather Vickery: I don’t know if that’s true. In America, we got a lot of people who don’t, but still six figures I would spend, I would have… Listen if what I’ve invested in produces like it’s supposed to, if it produces one new cohort member and/or one VIP day coaching session for me, I’ve tripled my monthly investment. So, it’s business strategy planning and digital marketing. And those are things that we have to have to grow our business. We could have the best product or service in the entire world but if people do not know we exist…

Hilary Hendershott: Nobody knows about it. 

Heather Vickery: You cannot sell it. And I am a big, big firm believer in hiring people who are really good at something, do what they’re really good at so that I can do what I’m really good at. And that’s not my jam. 

Hilary Hendershott: So, you went from spending and I didn’t even ask you to like prepare this number. And maybe you don’t know but you went from spending X percent of your revenue on marketing because you’ve been doing digital marketing. Your website is gorgeous. I see you all over the place. You didn’t go from nothing. So, you went from spending like what percent of your revenue to what percent approximately? 

Heather Vickery: Yeah. First of all, it’s good to know it’s out there because it feels very lonely and like there are crickets on the side a lot. And I think every entrepreneur feels that way like if we don’t get the feedback that we want. Probably and I don’t have these numbers figured out but I would say I was probably spending 20%. And until my revenue increases, which I believe that it will do fairly rapidly with what I am implementing now, probably closer to 40% to 50%. 

Hilary Hendershott: Great. Wow. Oh, I should definitely have you back. We have to do a full circle on this expansion plan and all the spending. We have to wait for it to have its results and then have you back on because we want to know. We want to know. Okay. So, you’re growing. Are you hiring people? Do you have other coaches that work for you? So, you have staffing costs too. 

Heather Vickery: Absolutely. We are hiring fairly actively right now. Literally, made some offers earlier today to grow the team and I have two coaches in my IBE program on my bench right now. I’m the only one in the company that does one-on-one coaching, and I only take two one-on-one clients a year because of time capacity and it’s a really high ticket item, right? But we’re growing that in really big ways, and I’m looking for those opportunities, the right people just placed into those opportunities. So, yeah, there are hard costs. 

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah. Okay. Any comments financially speaking on your divorce? And then when I was reading your bio, you typed, “She came out of the closet,” and I said, “We’ll talk about that.” But you already said the gender of your partner is female. So, you went from being married to a man to being with a woman. 

Heather Vickery: Yeah. 

Hilary Hendershott: Any comments about your divorce financially? Was it costly for you? For him? Did you work it out to be equal? How’d that go? 

Heather Vickery: Oh, no. So, yeah, after a decade of marriage, and this is taking a long story and making a short story, realized I was married to the wrong gender. And also, we weren’t a good married pair, and I think we would have gotten divorced anyway. It would have been a lot more painful. Not that it wasn’t painful because we don’t get married to get divorced. It’s always painful even if it’s the right thing to do. I wanted out and I gave up a lot, and he had a great job, still does, making a lot of money and I did not take alimony because I felt guilt I suppose that I was leaving because I was gay and somehow like I had screwed him over in that way. I don’t really feel that way anymore. 

Hilary Hendershott: It’s not unreasonable. I can get it. 

Heather Vickery: Yeah. So, I passed up alimony and originally at first he paid a pretty healthy child support and now he doesn’t. And not necessarily my income has increased but not a lot, but I don’t want to need his support, and I work really hard to make it okay without it. And for a couple of years ago, his company was bought out and he had a great severance but was out of work for a year-and-a-half and just stopped paying child support in that timeframe. I am probably most proud of the fact that I kept two kids in private school and all my bills paid without any support from him at all. You know, he’s a great guy. But when we were married, he called my job a hobby like he didn’t have any belief in me or what I was trying to do. And the fact that I never, ever knock on wood had to go out and get a job where somebody else was sending me a paycheck. I’ve always been able to not just survive but thrive with my kids is something I’m wildly proud of. And in the moment, we’re just doing the thing, right? We’re not thinking about any of it. And then a couple of years later, I was like, “Oh, I did that all by myself.” And I didn’t know that I could. But we do. You and I were talking with her. We do what we must do because what are the options? There are no other. 

Hilary Hendershott: What am I going to do? Curl up in a ball and die? 

Heather Vickery: Yeah, exactly. We are going to do it. And all of my kids have come through the same private school. My divorce agreement said that I’m 100% responsible for it because he didn’t think it was important and I did. I do. And so, I’ve paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in private school tuition in the course of the last eight years, nine years. So, yeah, I don’t know. 

Hilary Hendershott: So, let’s talk about – and just when you were talking, let me zip it on what I was just going to say, but when you were just talking, you talked about how you were willing to give up the alimony and the future payments, I thought it’s a very easy come, easy go kind of mindset about money. You’re the opposite of white-knuckled, right? 

Heather Vickery: Yeah. I am.

Hilary Hendershott: It seems like you have a lot of peace of mind about it. 

Heather Vickery: I guess I do. I don’t know why. 

Hilary Hendershott: But you would know if you didn’t. 

Heather Vickery: I don’t. Yeah, I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about it. I just, I don’t know.

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah. The sun is setting here in Puerto Rico. I’m watching my lighting disappear. My lights haven’t shown up yet. 

Heather Vickery: You look beautiful, though. Actually, it’s all glowy. 

Hilary Hendershott: Thanks. It’s shadowy. It’s like mysterious.

Heather Vickery: No, it’s not. It’s not shadowy. It’s like sunset-ty. It’s all bright. 

Hilary Hendershott: Let’s go with that. Great. So, let’s talk about what it takes. Many of us in business have the experience of, “Look, my calendar is full. My team is fully engaged like I’m at time capacity.” You didn’t say you were at time capacity. I mean, I’m sure you guard your calendar. 

Heather Vickery: I was before. 

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah. But then what you have to do to sort of break out of that shell, like break up to the next level is so scary because you have to become someone you don’t know how to be. 

Heather Vickery: That’s exactly it. But that’s been the story of all the things that I’ve ever done in my whole life is becoming someone I don’t know how to be to get someplace else that I want to go with thought and intention. And so, I mentioned in my group program, two years ago, I did not have that. I was only doing one-on-one coaching, some corporate executive coaching, and speaking engagements. And there I hit my time capacity. Like, there’s just only so many hours that you can coach one-on-one. There’s only so much you can charge unless you’re Tony Robbins, right? I’m not charging a million dollars a year to coach. That would be awesome. Maybe we’ll get there. And that’s when I started my IBE program because all of a sudden then I could literally scale that as much as I want to scale it. You know, like we can still maintain the small individual cohorts. We can bring on more coaches that sort of manage them. I come in and do VIP sessions with them like we can restructure that over and over and over again and add layers, add layers, add layers to make that eight-figure business a nine-figure business, whatever we want it to be, right? Now, I’ve kind of forgot what your original question was. There used to be a time capacity. 

Hilary Hendershott: But emotionally?

Heather Vickery: Yeah. 

Hilary Hendershott: Because I got to imagine a lot of entrepreneurs just say, “You know what, we’re just going to put this thing on rails. I’m just going to keep it right where it’s at. I’m going to keep working 50 hours a week. I’m going to keep making exactly what I’m making. And basically, I’ve built myself a job.” Or, you know, maybe they even uplevel from there and they become the CEO or they become the chairman of the board and they hire a CEO, right? But they choose not to expand like they just reach a place where they’re like, “I can’t spread my wings any bigger.” And I feel that’s where you’re at but it’s almost like it didn’t even stop you. Talk to me about that moment. 

Heather Vickery: It didn’t stop me because I want to go where I want to go. And I don’t want to be the one that sets the limits on myself. I don’t want to be the reason that I don’t do the most incredible things. Like, other people can throw it at me but I’m not going to do it to myself. And so, they’re afraid of whatever like, well, this is hard. It’s going to be more work, and I would actually venture to say if you do it thoughtfully, leveling up, hiring more help, finding new ways to serve and do that, frees up your time. I’ve built this business while I maintain really strong boundaries. I don’t work 50 hours a week. I do not do that and I do not want to. I only have my kids half the time. When my kids are with me, they are my number one priority. I also know that after about seven o’clock at night, I start to sound like gibberish. I can’t work late at night. Everything’s going to be a mess. I’m not my best self. My writing is funky. There’s typos everywhere. Like, I just know that’s not going to serve me. And so, I spend a lot of time really being thoughtful and intentional about planning how I’m going to spend my time to maximize it and who do I need in my corner to help me get there? And I did just gloss over it because I woke up one day and I thought, “I want to have a business.” 

And I’m there. I’m at the bottom of this ladder of this, but we’re building up where I have a full team of people, 15 to 20 people who I pay so well that it changes their lives so that when they show up to support our clients, they’re showing up from a place of, “Let’s change your life,” and they’re all in. And so, my motivation switched a little bit from, “How do I make more money for myself? How do I serve the clients more?” to really honoring the people on my team and growing my team in a way that it’s affirming for them so that they then transfer that to the people we’re supporting. And it was just when that came to me, when that was like, “Oh, that’s what I want,” I’m like, “Okay. Right. How do we build that?” and we just go. 

Hilary Hendershott: So, what do you literally do when you say to yourself, “I want my company to look like that or I want to have that skill set or I want to achieve that or I want to do that thing that that person is doing,” and you ask yourself, “How do I get there? What actions do I take?” and there’s nothing. You got nothing. What do you do? 

Heather Vickery: So, this is where I think manifestation is fascinating, right? Because I like to start with a big vision like this is the thing I want to create and, okay, I don’t know how to do that. Do I know anybody else who’s done it? What rooms can I be in? Who can I talk to? And I start showing up differently in different spaces and making new friends and asking really good questions and looking for the opportunities to say, “I want to work with you. I want you to help me do this” or getting new mentors and things like that. So, I think the biggest answer to that question, if I really don’t know how to do it, I try to identify somebody else who I’ve seen do it or who I’ve heard of doing it, and I show up on their doorstep and I’m like, “Let’s be friends.” Virtual doorsteps. I don’t show up on real doorsteps anymore. “Can I be your friend? Can I learn from you? Can we talk? Can we have a conversation?” Most people are willing to say yes. The people who are making major, major money, if you’ve gotten through to them, they like to give back. They’d like to be mentors. We don’t usually ask because it feels scary to ask. But why would they talk to us? How do you know? Try. 

Hilary Hendershott: Right. And so, is that where you are in your process right now? Or do you have clarity about where you’re going? 

Heather Vickery: No. I have good clarity about where we’re going right now. But I didn’t a few months ago. 

Hilary Hendershott: We’re definitely going to do a follow-up. I know I’ve said this three times over the course of this conversation. 

Heather Vickery: I know. No pressure or anything, Hilary. I was like, “Okay, universe. Now, we’re going to come back. We have to undone this thing.” 

Hilary Hendershott: And here I am with Heather’s books. Okay. Perfect. Thank you. I think it’s fascinating to listen to the inner workings of other people’s money mindsets. I call it the money operating system. It’s basically the same thing. You are the first person I’ve had on the show who said my parents’ thing didn’t get on me. And so, now 4,000, 5,000 people who listen to this show know that it’s possible. They know it’s possible. Everyone’s running around thinking they’re going to get theirs on their kid. Here’s Heather to say maybe not. 

Heather Vickery: Maybe not. Yeah. I mean, if I spend time thinking about it, my mom, she never said, “Oh, we can’t. We can’t afford it. We can’t do this and that.” We might not have done it but those were never her words. She never used those scarcity mindset words. So, I guess I would say to you, if you don’t want to pass it on to your kids, just think about the words you’re using in your household. And it’s a good reminder for me too. 

Hilary Hendershott: It really is because that’s all you have. I’m trying to describe time to my daughter right now. She said, “I don’t understand.” I said, “Do you know what later is?” She says, “No, I don’t.” Like, how do you describe it? Anyway, let’s talk about you have a guide. You have a thing for people so they can get a piece of you. Tell us about it. 

Heather Vickery: Yeah. So, my coaching method is called The Brave Method, and it is not an enter at A, exit at Z, and you’ll have this result sort of thing. It’s a strategic method for creatively and thoughtfully problem solving and planning. And so, I have the quick guide, The Brave Method guide and you can learn all about it. The book that’s coming out talks all about it. It’s part memoir, part case study, part now do this for yourself. And it really, truly, really, really works. I use it. I created it. It got me out of the lowest points in my life when I was going through my divorce and transitioning my business. And then I was like, “How did I do that?” And these are the things that I did, and I quantified it and I put it together, and now I share it because it truly works. I just had somebody just this morning. I did it for business but it’s a 360 approach. A client that I’ve worked with for a couple of years now lost her mother to a very long illness and she said, “I have used what you taught me so much in the last month, and it has been the only thing that has saved me.” And I was so touched by that that she bothered to take the time to tell me and to see it play, I see it play out of business all the time to see it play out in someone’s life. 

So, The Brave Method, if you go to VickeryandCo.com/Guide, you can get your hands on the quick guide, The Brave Method Quick Guide. And if you kind of like my energy, come hang out with my Facebook group, which is free and fun. It’s called the Brave On Purpose, and I call everybody my brave hearts and we just like lift each other up. We talk about business. It’s not a business group. It’s a 360 approach to embracing a braver, more purposeful life. 

Hilary Hendershott: And the podcast? 

Heather Vickery: Oh, the podcast is called The Brave Files. I interview people who’ve stepped out of fear and into bravery in every possible way. See, brave is my business, Hilary. Brave, it’s all about that. 

Hilary Hendershott: Okay. Thank you for being here. We’ll link to all those things in the show notes for today’s episode. I just really appreciate your time. It’s great to get your perspective on having an abundant mindset despite all the things. 

Heather Vickery: I know, right? Thank you so much. I appreciate it. It was a lot of fun.

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