256 | Yes Girl, You Can Leave Him: A CFP® Professional Reacts to the Financial Problems of Strangers on the Internet

Hilary Hendershott: Hey, Money Lover. Today I am going to do something a little bit different. It was inspired by someone I’ve been watching on Instagram and some posts I saw. I saw some threads where someone was screenshotting things from Reddit, bringing them over to Instagram. You know how it goes. The point is, I was reading this post, and I was attempting to collect my jaw off the floor the whole time, because it was a series of those, “Am I the a-dollar sign, dollar sign?” Now, sometimes I curse on this show. However, in this case I feel like you might want to listen to this with your daughter or son in the car.

Hilary Hendershott: And so I’m just gonna say, “Am I the jerk?/Should I leave him?” posts where someone is describing a financial issue they’re having with their partner. It happens to be all husbands in this case, and as I’m reading it, what’s going through my head is pretty much, “Yes, girl, you can leave him.”

Hilary Hendershott: I know we worry about being the meanie, about being perceived as greedy and selfish and materialistic, right? But today’s core message is probably going to be… It’s okay to leave if the money doesn’t work. Right? But the truth is, I always know it’s not that simple in relationships, and it pains me to see women who are held back in our lives because of unhealthy, unproductive, destructive financial partnerships. Even abusive.

Hilary Hendershott: It’s part of really what fuels me when I do my work with clients at Hendershott Wealth Management, where our mission is to see women and their partners healthy, wealthy, and thriving.

Hilary Hendershott: And sometimes part of thriving is letting go of what is making you not thrive, right? I know you know that, I’m just bringing it home today. So today I wanted to read some of these posts and react to them.

Hilary Hendershott: You are definitely going to hear my mama bear, money maven, CFP® self come out. If you know someone who maybe, or maybe see yourself in some of these stories, maybe it’ll give you a little bit of a loving kick in the butt to act in your best interest, even if you’ve not been conditioned to, or haven’t until now been able to give yourself permission to.

Hilary Hendershott: I have not read these stories in advance. I haven’t been primed for them. I asked my producers to find the source, to find some posts for me to react to, to copy them into a document and to edit for length and clarity, and I’m going to read them out loud and respond as we go.

Hilary Hendershott: As always, I love to hear from you. If any of this resonates, send me an email at hello@hendershottwealth.com, and we can continue this conversation. Real quick, Hendershott has 2 t’s. So it’s H-E-N-D-E-R-S-H-O-T-T wealth.com. So hello at hendershottwealth.com, and we can continue this conversation.

Hilary Hendershott: For now, as I like to say, buckle up buttercup, we’re diving into the depths of the Internet where filters come off. Maybe the gloves, too, for better or for worse. Okay.

Hilary Hendershott: First post.

Hilary Hendershott: “My husband committed financial infidelity, and I am now unsure what to do. I am a 31-year old female, found out that my husband, who’s a 36-year old male, lied to me about his finances, and this term is usually labeled as financial infidelity.”

Hilary Hendershott: You got it right, girl, that’s what it is. It’s… moving on. “Backstory. When I met my husband, I had just gotten out of a very long term relationship with a man who had debt problems. I and this guy were engaged, and at one point, I had debt collectors calling me!”

Hilary Hendershott: Red flag. She put a red flag. So that got one red flag. “He would always tell me the reason he didn’t have enough money was because he was paying off his student loan. One day his laptop was open, and I saw his account. He had not made one single payment to his student loans in years. Three red flags. I was traumatized, and eventually, after five years together, we broke up.”

Hilary Hendershott: Okay, this very statement tells you so much about this person. Right?

Hilary Hendershott: First of all, she wants and needs transparency. I imagine not just financial transparency, but the fact that she used the word ‘traumatized’ tells you this is not okay with her, right? For someone to be partnered with this woman, they need to understand that she needs your honesty, your proactive communication, your partnership, when it comes to money.

Hilary Hendershott: She left this relationship after five years, because he just completely deceived her about not only what he was doing in his financial life, but what that impacts is what makes possible for her who’s in a financial partnership with this person. So now you know something about this woman. Okay.

Hilary Hendershott: She’s serious about both integrity in her partnership and financial success.

Hilary Hendershott: Okay. “My current husband and I met a few months after this breakup. When we met, he gave me the illusion he was financially stable. He would reference the stock market and some winnings.”

Hilary Hendershott: Girl, they always reference their winnings. They never tell you about their losers. I’ve said this before on this show.

Hilary Hendershott: It’s so good to have this reinforced. Yes, any time a man tells you about his stock market prowess, ask him about his losers. If he is not honest with you that he’s had some, that’s a red flag. Okay.

Hilary Hendershott: “He had a good job, his own place, and the first time he came to my place he brought me mountains of home things and groceries unprovoked.” Home things… that must be like decor. So he gives gifts.

Hilary Hendershott: “On our first few dates, they were activity dates, and he always bought me the necessary items, ski gear for ski trips, and etc.”

Hilary Hendershott: Okay, that’s not a low cost item. Hey, that’s nice. It’s nice to be dating someone who provides like that. Anyway, “I was definitely under the illusion he was financially stable.” So am I.

Hilary Hendershott: “And this is very much something I was looking for. His home and car were modest.”

Hilary Hendershott: That’s okay, I mean, maybe he’s the millionaire next door. Most of my clients drive Toyotas. “But I figured he was mindful about spending.”

Hilary Hendershott: Now she’s assuming, okay. “My husband has a son, which I wasn’t very sure about being a stepmom, especially as I’m thinking about not having kids, but as he is financially stable and kind and honest, I thought, okay, let’s do this. I also always directly asked him about his debt, finance, and he always said he was in great standing. A year later we got married.”

Hilary Hendershott: Okay. This is our first misstep. Yes, good intention. She has good intentions. She’s paying attention. She’s intuiting things about his financial life. He’s giving gifts. He has a modest car which you can assume means he saves a lot and spends a little.

Hilary Hendershott: But it could mean other things, and what I really want from you, Money Lover, and my first piece of advice for this woman is, yes, to making a mental snapshot of his portfolio, his financial situation.

Hilary Hendershott: But at some point during the dating process, you’re going to ask to see the documents. You want to see the statements. You want to see the debts. You want to see the up-to-date net worth. You want to see what his house is worth, how big the mortgage is, what the rate is. You want to see if he has credit card debt, and I know that this is not ordinary.

Hilary Hendershott: No, it’s not totally out of the realm. A lot of people are getting more serious about their finances, but it may be that you start dating someone who feels timid about  sharing that information, or, kind of worse–sorry, it is worse–if they think it’s private.

Hilary Hendershott: Ultimately, if you’re in a romantic relationship with someone that could lead to marriage, that is leading to a financial partnership–marriage is a financial partnership–the money is real. You got to really get real with actually what’s so; like the reality of the matter. And you can push people little degrees toward this outcome. You can say in the first two months of your dating, “Yeah, at some point I’ll definitely show you my financial picture. I assume you’ll show me yours.”

Hilary Hendershott: They’ll say whatever they’ll say. But now you’ve put your expectation out there, right? Now you can deal with what might be in between you and that person and seeing all of their financial statements. And you can sort of, like I said, inch them toward that, well, six or eight, nine months, something like that. But yeah, we definitely want to do financial transparency. That whole hiding what’s in your bank accounts? That’s so like 1980. We’re not doing that, right?

Hilary Hendershott: And you just let them know what your expectation is. You’re a clearing. You’re going to be the space inside which financial transparency shows up. All right. Getting back to the original post.

Hilary Hendershott: So now she’s married this second guy. “Marriage has been up and down, some good moments, some not so good. Early on, I found him to be critical, very tight about money, would easily get in a bad mood. Now, three years later, I find that my husband is actually in massive debt of close to $100,000. It was even more when we got married, and I’m starting to connect the dots. His mood swings; him always being money conscious during our marriage; all the lies.”

Hilary Hendershott: Yep, and here’s where this woman’s–and I have it, too–need for transparency and truth telling comes up. This is not going to be good for her. She does not like being lied to. She is not someone who’s easily going to get over this.

Hilary Hendershott: “When he finally came clean after I saw some forms, he told me he was so worried about me leaving him, that he loves me, and then he thought he could pay it off, and everything would be fine.”

Hilary Hendershott: Okay, that could be a vulnerable and honest and authentic communication. And it could also be narcissism, like complete deception.

Hilary Hendershott: “Ladies.” This is back to the original poster. She says, “Ladies, I am feeling DECEIVED.” In all caps. “I do love and care for my husband, but I would never have moved forward with marriage if I knew there was this massive debt, not without at least talking about his financial plan.”

Hilary Hendershott: And see now you’re getting into the real darkness of lying to someone about something that’s really core to who you are and impacts them in the future is if they make permanent decisions for their lives, to spend time with you, to get engaged to you, to get married to you, you’re kind of stealing time and it’s really diabolical.

Hilary Hendershott: “I feel silly for not insisting or reviewing paperwork. But now is not the time for that. I need to think about my next action.” She’s a practical gal.

Hilary Hendershott: “From taking a detailed look at everything, I see he’s actively paying it off, and that his income amount is true–over $170K.” Okay. “And that this was before he met me, and before he figured out his career. We could pay it off in three years, but I can’t get over the deception. I can’t get over how I feel like I didn’t have a true opportunity to meet the authentic, stable man I envisioned, and a part of me feels robbed.”

Hilary Hendershott: You have been robbed. You absolutely have been robbed.

Hilary Hendershott: “Seeking thoughts and guidance. Short version, husband lies to me about being financially stable, is actually in massive debt, could technically make it work and pay it off, but feel completely deceived, and may walk away.” Yeah.

Hilary Hendershott: I’m going to be honest. I don’t see this person getting over this. It is possible to get over deception, betrayal like this. It is possible. And, as many of you have experienced potentially with financial or romantic or sexual infidelity, it happens.

Hilary Hendershott: And, at some point, the only way to move forward is to put it in the past, right? However, I don’t see this in her typology. She has used very dramatic, very specific, and very expressive language to talk about how betrayed she feels. And I just want you to hear, if this is you: It’s okay to walk away. It is okay.

Hilary Hendershott: If you can’t get over it, I mean, ultimately, you could choose to get over it. And if you’re listening, I mean. Look, he’s got high income. $170K isn’t bad, paying off debt in three years isn’t bad. And it’s three more years you’re not building wealth. I mean, your net worth is going up, but you’re just getting to zero, right? And you have been deceived. I mean this person let you marry him based on lies.

Hilary Hendershott: So for me, from a financial perspective, from a female perspective, permission granted to… We’ll consider the second marriage to be annulled. We’ll just pretend it didn’t happen, and move on and find the stable guy that you want. It’s all good.

Hilary Hendershott: And then, definitely, next time you’re going to ask to see you’re gonna ask to see the investment statements. Absolutely. Lesson learned. No other option.

Hilary Hendershott: All right. Second post.

Hilary Hendershott: “Just learned my husband lost $60,000 behind my back.” Oh, this is gonna be good.

Hilary Hendershott: “So my husband has been involved in trading stocks.” Yeah, this is going to be great.

Hilary Hendershott: “And I just found out today he’s lost a lot. It’s been going on two years behind my back. We purchased a nice house, our second house, two years ago, when prices were sky high. We purchased high and thought we could sell high.”

Hilary Hendershott: Oh, wow! We have multiple issues. So these folks were essentially planning to flip this house, even though she’s calling it her second house, ‘we purchased high and thought we could sell high.’ That’s a flip. Okay.

Hilary Hendershott: So many people think that real estate is a foregone conclusion, as a place you can find profits, and it is absolutely not true. It is absolutely not true. Not only that, but there’s absolutely no reason to think that if they had put that money that they had used to buy the second house into the stock market, into the kind of portfolios we talk about on this show: evidence-based portfolios. I’m only saying all this because I have all these legal requirements. Don’t go out and buy anything based on this conversation.

Hilary Hendershott: In other words, if you consider that opportunity cost, in all likelihood, the stock market investment would have done better. So ‘we purchased high and thought we could sell high’ – again, it’s sort of pipe dreams, but hope springs eternal when it comes to real estate.

Hilary Hendershott: “While trying to sell, though, interest rates increased.” There you go. “Housing prices dropped quickly, and suddenly we got a lot less for our old house than expected, around $200,000 less.”

Hilary Hendershott: I’m so sorry.

Hilary Hendershott: “When we thought we’d get more, the plan was for me to not work, and he would pay for our expenses, using his single income. It just didn’t happen. And so I agreed to start a home daycare business to make ends meet.” Okay. So she’s going back to work to make up for the real estate loss.

Hilary Hendershott: “It took a few months for me to get clients, but eventually I did, and I’ve been making up the difference, and more on top of that in savings. We have one, 2-year old child together, and with the savings I worked out, we could have a second child soon, and have enough for me to be off a year.”

Hilary Hendershott: So not working while raising her children is important to this person. You can see her chasing it, trying to make it happen. Unfortunately, the real estate strategy was a bad one, but then she went to work. I get it. She’s just like running the treadmill.

Hilary Hendershott: “Well, it turns out my husband didn’t trust that I would make the money, and he turned to taking out 0% interest loans to do high risk trading behind my back.”

Hilary Hendershott: Oh, my goodness! Oh, what is wrong with people?

Hilary Hendershott: “Well, I’ve been making around $60K a year in my new business. He just told me he lost $60K. It feels like my last year of work has been for nothing.”

Hilary Hendershott: It has been for nothing. You’ve been working for free. Not only that, if you make $60K, I mean, I’m assuming that’s gross revenues. You make less than that in net income after expenses. And he lost $60K. But you had to earn more than $60K to put $60K in the market, because you have to pay either ordinary income or capital gains taxes on it to put it in an account. So, it’s bad.

Hilary Hendershott: The sitch is bad. I mean, for those of you listening to this show who listen to this show continuously, I talk about Money Operating System®s.

Hilary Hendershott: You can tell these two people have very different Money Operating System®s, right? And you know his is something–I don’t know exactly what it is, I haven’t heard him talk about money, but it’s some like money scarcity, and there’s some lack of sophistication about it, and I don’t mean that as a value judgment. But taking 0% interest rate loans to trade in the stock market is…

Hilary Hendershott: It’s crazy. It’s just very basic.

Hilary Hendershott: You don’t do that once you have some financial sophistication. Whereas she’s working, I mean, she’s literally trading time for dollars, watching kids all day, watching her child, watching other people’s kids. You can just tell they behave very differently.

Hilary Hendershott: To tie that Money Operating System® narrative up, you know, we don’t have a skill set of talking through our Money Operating System®s, and even being willing to release some of the destructive or non-functional conversations; strongly held beliefs from our past as we get into a marriage, which would be productive.

Hilary Hendershott: And, as you know, money turns out to be one of the most painful, hard to work out aspects of marriage. It is the cause of the vast majority of divorce, as reported by the media. So it’s really important to get on the same page with your Money Operating System®, money beliefs, money patterns, money expectations before you get married. These folks, unfortunately, did not do that.

Hilary Hendershott: “On top of everything, my husband has been miserable the last two years, and is taking his stress out on me.” What a hero. “He always made it seem like my contribution wasn’t enough, and I wasn’t”–well, no, because you were working for free! Sorry, it’s not funny– “and I wasn’t making enough money, and our debt was so high. And now I know why.”

Hilary Hendershott: Isn’t that interesting? So he’s lying to you, but speaking truths to you? Isn’t that interesting? This guy.

Hilary Hendershott: “Because he lost all this money without telling me.”

Hilary Hendershott: Exactly. He’s probably feeling guilty and upset and angry at himself, and gave himself permission to turn it on you. This is not your guy. “I felt like we were fine when we weren’t. I don’t know where to go from here. He told me today only because I finally found evidence in tax forms sent to us, and I confronted him.”

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah. He was never going to share it with you, my friend. “My daycare business is tied to having this house, so if I leave him and lose the house, there goes that.”

Hilary Hendershott: Well, can’t you keep the house?

Hilary Hendershott: I mean in a divorce, most things get split evenly, so probably you could keep the house if you’re the one working.

Hilary Hendershott: Probably, you could work it up to keep the house. “I have worked so hard, and I love what I do. I don’t want to lose my business. I also don’t want to break up my family.”

Hilary Hendershott: Well, I hear you. But he kind of broke up your family.

Hilary Hendershott: “Any advice? I feel very caught off guard by all this, and obviously very hurt that he lied to me. Thanks.”

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah, I would feel hurt, too. You deserve to feel hurt, and it sounds like you’re at the very beginning of creating your adult life, right?

Hilary Hendershott: This guy could change. Anyone can change. Ladies, I am a fan of letting people be someone new. However, they have to do and say the same things at the same time, right? So his promises would start to come true. My hunch is this person is not interested in upleveling with you.

Hilary Hendershott: And you have my full permission to–instead of being his wife–become his co-parent. I hope you can keep the house and keep your business.

Hilary Hendershott: Okay. My final post from today is “AITA: Am I the jerk for wanting a divorce from my husband, who lost $200k in Bitcoin.”

Hilary Hendershott: Oh, I love crypto. “My husband and I have been married for 10 years. For our entire relationship, I have brought the majority of the money into the home. I contribute 75% of that.” Wow.

Hilary Hendershott: “I don’t mind. Really, it’s not something I think about, and I’ve always considered it our money.” See, she’s a great wife.

Hilary Hendershott: “Our country, Switzerland, is really expensive, and I grew up in not a large city, and rather poor. When I had the chance to go to university, I studied hard, learned three languages, got two degrees, and was able to secure a good position in finance.”

Hilary Hendershott: She’s a great wife. Hold on to this one. “Years later I make a very good salary, and we don’t have to worry about money.”

Hilary Hendershott: Somehow, I think money worry is coming.

Hilary Hendershott: “We decided that my husband would handle all the money and finances for the home.” Oh, God! Oh, I feel like I just got punched in the gut. Why? No. Handle all the money and finances? No, no, no, no, no!

Hilary Hendershott: “I would check on the accounts every once in a while.” I’m hoping every once in a while is every four weeks, or something at minimum… “But I haven’t been checking regularly.” Here we go. “A few weeks ago, I was thinking about buying a Tesla Model 3 since it’s recently come to our country, and I’ve fancied it for some time.”

Hilary Hendershott: Glad I got some European language in there. She fancied it. I played with the numbers, and while figuring out if I can afford it or not, I realized there’s a weird mistake in our accounts. There was over 300…”

Hilary Hendershott: I have to be totally honest with you. I have forgotten what the acronym CHF Stands for, anyway, it’s the Swiss franc. And if my math is correct, that’s about $350,000 US dollars. So she’s got $350,000 missing.

Hilary Hendershott: “When my husband got home. I showed him the accounts. After some pushing, he admitted that he purchased $300,000 in cryptocurrency in 2018, and it’s now only worth $100K.” So he stole from you.

Hilary Hendershott: He stole from you. You bring in 3/4s of the money. He said, ‘Let me manage the money, and then I’m going to take it without your permission, and I’m going to do something super gambly with it.’

Hilary Hendershott: And he lost $200,000, which is really more like $230,000 US dollars.

Hilary Hendershott: “This is about 25% of our savings.” Oh, my God, I’m so sorry. “Besides being shocked and angry, I cannot help feel that he stole from me.”

Hilary Hendershott: Isn’t it interesting? She says ‘I can’t help but feel that he stole from me.’ He stole from you.

Hilary Hendershott: He did steal from you! He stole. He put his hands in the cookie jar, and stole the money. He didn’t tell you what he was going to do with it. That’s stealing. You may experience being stolen from. You have my permission.

Hilary Hendershott: “He put money into something stupid without talking to me, and then he tried to hide it. I was thinking about this for a week, and I talked to my friends and family about it.” I wish I could have been a fly on the wall for those conversations.

Hilary Hendershott: “They think we should see a doctor.” I assume she means therapist. What kind of doctor…a crypto doctor.

Hilary Hendershott: “And talk about it. Try to work on the problem. But I honestly just want to get divorced. If he is capable of doing this, how can I ever trust him again? Am I the jerk for not wanting to talk about it or go to therapy? Am I the jerk for thinking about divorce?”

Hilary Hendershott: No, you know I feel like my summary for all three of these posts has been, ‘It’s okay to leave.’ This one seems the most certain. You can tell. This woman has had her nose to the grindstone for decades. She’s been serious about getting rich slowly. And by slowly, I mean, like the conservative, plotting, hard work way, right? She’s not out starting three Internet companies and trying to do multimillion dollar launches.

Hilary Hendershott: Not that there’s anything wrong with that, okay, but I’m saying she’s working hard and plotting. It’s a consistent, slow roll for her, and she’s very serious about it. And what she’s discovered about her husband is that he’s not that. I mean, what was he thinking? Who must she be for him, that he would do that for her? Right? So this really isn’t even… it’s a financial conversation, but it’s a human conversation.

Hilary Hendershott: So first of all, obviously, and no victim blaming here. But her major mistake was this whole, ‘we decided he would handle the money and the finances thing.’ I mean, I don’t know what she was thinking. I can guarantee you she’ll never do that again, though. But she’s not a jerk for thinking about divorce, and, as I have said, you have my full permission to go that route.

Hilary Hendershott: Gosh, I have to admit I feel a little sad after reading those three.

Hilary Hendershott: That brings us to the end of our very first “Girl, you can leave him’ episode here on Love, your Money®. I sincerely hope that you don’t see yourself in these stories, and that you’re in a loving, transparent financial partnership and relationship.

Hilary Hendershott: But if there is resonance, if you hear something that you’ve been through, or that you’ve felt, you can always decide to do something differently. It does not mean that you’re not a good person. It does not mean that you’re materialistic. It does not mean that you’re not a good wife. It is okay to demand financial productivity and partnership in your life.

Hilary Hendershott: Believe me, I work with people and their money every day, and I’m not immune to financial issues in my partnerships. In fact, if you listen to episodes 249 and 250 of this podcast celebrating my company’s 10-year anniversary of being in business, you heard my husband, Robert, and me talk about how our relationships with money and each other have changed over the years.

Hilary Hendershott: I came into our relationship fresh off my financial rock bottom. And I mean, I just have to be grateful to him for being willing to tolerate that. I had been forced to get radically honest about my money, and I had started talking about it very openly. He did not have to accept a person who was in that phase of her life, right? There was no evidence when I met him that my financial life would be where it is today. He trusted me. I lived into it, and here we are today.

Hilary Hendershott: Robert, on the other hand, came into our marriage with a history of just not talking about money. He had to have money be no problem. So he was handling everything, but not talking about the details.

Hilary Hendershott: So at my invitation–you could say insistence–he faced his own ingrained beliefs to realize there’s no way to be in a full financial partnership without talking about money.

Hilary Hendershott: And now we both know you can ask the awkward questions. You can reveal the uncomfortable truths, and you can follow the numbers to confirm the answers. At this point, Robert and I enjoy a very emotionless relationship with money, where our conversations are tactical, not volatile.

Hilary Hendershott: Let’s be honest. A lot of the situations in these Reddit horror stories could have been avoided with a monthly money date.

Hilary Hendershott: It’s worth the time, effort and vulnerability–courage–because beyond creating stronger relationships, when you’re able to talk openly and heal some of the bad money mindsets and behaviors you inherited, you can model different choices for the next generation. You can heal the financial mistakes you’ve made in the past, and you can move into a phase of life where money takes care of you because you’ve taken care of it for so long.

Hilary Hendershott: The fact that you’re listening to this podcast means to me, you’re in exactly the right place because your goal is to rewire thought patterns and belief systems that are not serving you so you can build meaningful wealth, relationships, and the life you really want.

Hilary Hendershott: To learn more about financial partnerships and dissolving them when needed, head to the show notes for this episode at hendershottwealth.com/256.

Hilary Hendershott: You’ll find links to resources related to this episode, such as our episodes about the Financial Implications of Divorce. There are also links to help you explore your relationship with money. That can be in the context of being with a partner. Maybe it’s just in a friendship type relationship, or in your own heart and soul, right? Just for yourself.

Hilary Hendershott: Being someone who deserves wealth. That’s a big deal. No matter where you are, know that you’re not alone, and the results of our collective efforts will be so, so worth it.

Hilary Hendershott: Together we can learn from our past, make better choices in the present, and build a future where everyone thrives.

Hilary Hendershott: And hey! If you see any of these posts and you want my honest reaction, send it to me on Instagram. I’m at @hilary.hendershott. I’m here for it.