268 | How Highly Sensitive, High Achievers Can Advocate for More with Melody Wilding

Melody Wilding

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Listen up: There’s going to be dollar signs flying at you after this episode.

 

Okay, I might be exaggerating, but listening to today’s guest WILL change how you show up in crucial conversations in the workplace–and what opportunities those conversations open up for you.

 

Melody Wilding is an award-winning executive coach, human behavior professor, and the author of Trust Yourself: Stop Overthinking and Channel Your Emotions for Success at Work, and its follow up, Managing Up: How to Get What You Need From the People in Charge, coming out in March 2025.

 

As a therapist, coach, and emotions researcher, Melody weaves evidence-based neuroscience and psychology with professional development. She joined me on Love, your Money® to share her expertise as it relates to money conversations, negotiating with higher ups, and advocating for yourself financially in a professional setting.

 

If you’re what Melody calls a Sensitive Striver–a highly sensitive person who’s also high achieving–OR you’ve ever felt like your people-pleasing ways are holding you back in the workplace or your personal life, this is a conversation you don’t want to miss. 👇

Here’s what you’ll find out in this week’s episode of Love, your Money:

  • 02:08 Melody’s term Sensitive Striver–what it is, how Melody started working with highly sensitive achievers, and how it relates to her latest book
  • 03:38 The difference between sensitivity and empathy, how they show up in professional settings, and the role of sensitivity in an evolutionary setting
  • 06:14 The struggles sensitive people may come up against when it comes to pursuing financial freedom and asking for what they need 
  • 08:25 When Imposter Syndrome shows up, and how it impacts sensitive people–especially when it comes to financial goals and accomplishments 
  • 13:53 Increasing your visibility, earning what you want, and the cost of flying under the radar 
  • 16:19 Problem, Action, Solution: Melody’s conversational framework to help you advocate for yourself, and share your accomplishments in effective and memorable ways
  • 20:11 The quitting conversation: What to do when you feel stuck in your career, the value of building relationships instead of burning bridges, and navigating exit interviews with grace
  • 24:55 How sensitive people can think about timing and self-advocacy when asking for raises or promotions, and getting teammates aligned with your desire for advancement 

Inspiring Quotes & Words to Remember

“Think of sensitivity as having a more responsive nervous system. And so your mind and your body have sort of bigger and deeper reactions to what’s happening around you.”

“Sensitive people tend to have more empathy because of the way they’re wired; because of the way their brain is processing information, and in particular, social information.”

“Sensitive people tend to be extremely hard workers, like, overly responsible, to a fault. We’ve been taught that you work hard, keep your head down and good things will come to you – that’s not how the working world works these days.”

“Every conversation I was having came back to overthinking, people pleasing, imposter syndrome, and not being able to say no. On the outside people were always blaming themselves… really, they didn’t know how to hold their own with people in authority.”

“When good-hearted people are in seats of power, we all win.”

“No one’s going to pluck you from obscurity and give you a 2x raise”

“You have an obligation to bring awareness to what you’re working on, and that’s because the people above you and across from you need transparency into what you’re doing–especially your boss.”

“You need to take control of your own narrative and say ‘this is the value that I’m bringing and my contributions.’”

“Even when you agree, you want to ask questions.”

“I’m always coaching people to frame [their asks] in terms of fairness… you need to make a case for not only the value you’ve already brought to the organization, but also the potential ROI of giving you more money.”

Resources and Related to Love, your Money Content

Enjoy the Show?​

Hilary Hendershott: Well, hey, Money Lover. Today I have with me someone who I have known tangentially for many years, and I’m so excited to bring her message to the show, because it really is going to resonate with you today. I have Melody Wilding. She’s an award winning executive coach, human behavior professor, and the author of Trust Yourself: Stop Overthinking and Channel Your Emotions for Success at Work, and Managing Up: How to Get What You Need From the People in Charge.

 

Hilary Hendershott: As a therapist, coach, and emotions researcher, Melody weaves evidence-based neuroscience and psychology with professional development. She joined me on the podcast to share her expertise as it relates to money conversations at work–what, like, there’s going to be dollars thrown at you in this episode, you need to stop and take notes–negotiating with your higher ups, and how to advocate for yourself financially in a financial setting. Welcome to the show, Melody.

 

Melody Wilding: I’m so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah, I’m looking forward to this. I was reading about your term “Sensitive Striver,” and that initially made me interested in chatting with you. My team and I reached out to you, and then you shared with me this new thing you’ve been working on. So let’s talk a little bit about sensitive striving, and then we’ll progress to the new thing. What is a Sensitive Striver? And how did you land on working specifically with Sensitive Strivers in your work?

 

Melody Wilding: A Sensitive Striver, very simply put, is someone who is highly sensitive but also high achieving. So they are a deep thinker and feeler, they respond to everything that’s happening both within them and around them, much more than the average person. And they’re also very driven in their careers. They set a lot of goals for themselves–high goals.

 

Melody Wilding: And the flip side of that is they also tend to put a lot of pressure on themselves to achieve those things. And so when that combination of traits comes together, it comes with tremendous upsides: being very perceptive of what’s going on around you, conscientious, thoughtful with your money and how you’re spending it and the decisions you’re making.

 

Melody Wilding: But if we’re not aware of these qualities or we’re not managing them correctly, we can get into the downsides. We can overthink things. We can become perfectionists or people pleasers. And so that’s, simply put, what it means to be a Sensitive Striver.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah, I’m a little bit sensitive, but I know sometimes when I do get stuck on emotions, I can feel just really stuck in general. So I imagine what you teach and your coaching is really important. How do you differentiate between sensitivity and empathy? Can you share an example of how those traits manifest differently in professional settings?

 

Melody Wilding: Such a great question. And I think sensitivity, when we talk about that, it’s really more so referring to a biological trait difference. And so sensitivity, think of it as having a more responsive nervous system.

 

Melody Wilding: And so your mind, your body, has sort of bigger and deeper responses to what’s happening around you. And I think what’s interesting for our conversation is that, what researchers believe the trait of sensitivity–and I should say, everyone is on the spectrum somewhere. People are just more sensitive or less sensitive. There are certain ones of us that are on the much higher end.

 

Melody Wilding: And that’s because back in prehistoric times, it was really helpful to have a certain amount of people in the group who were vigilant, who had their eyes open for danger and weren’t just rushing into situations. They were kind of biding their time. They were thinking, before they acted. And those people tended to keep the others around them and themselves safe. So that’s why this trait of sensitivity has persisted for millennia, because it’s this quality of thinking before we act.

 

Melody Wilding: And the connection with empathy–this is where the two come together–is that what they’ve also found is that sensitive people tend to have what’s called more active mirror neurons. And it’s called the empathy neuron because your mirror neurons pick up on other people’s behavior, like mirroring other people’s behavior.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Ah…

 

Melody Wilding: And so when that part of our brain is more active, again, we’re paying more attention to the subtleties in other people’s behavior. We’re noticing if they frowned when we gave that comment in a meeting, or that someone has seemed kind of just down/lower mood for a couple of weeks, and we know to check in. We’re picking up on those things.

 

Melody Wilding: And so sensitive people do tend to have more empathy because of the way they’re wired, because of the way their brain is processing information and in particular social information, emotional information around you. So hopefully, that’s an easy way to explain the two.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Right. And so we’re having to navigate both of these things in the case of a sensitive person who’s also highly empathetic and also achieve financial goals. So deal with the reactions of those people, the interplay of that group of people that you’re at work with and also advocate for yourself, etc, etc.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Yes, life is complicated. You know, I work with women and we talk a lot about wealth building, obviously, on this show.

 

Hilary Hendershott: I define financial freedom as the day when you no longer work because you have to, but you’re working because you want to. Right? So what struggles are sensitive people more likely to face when it comes to really putting a stake in the ground about being financially free? Because it is a self advocate– like no one’s going to do it but you.

 

Melody Wilding: Yes, yeah. And I think this is where it connects to sort of the other part of my work which is around advocating for yourself, speaking up, managing up because sensitive people, we tend to be a bit more reserved when it comes to asking for what we need. We don’t want to rock the boat.

 

Melody Wilding: We worry about upsetting people if we make a request. We don’t want them to think that we’re not grateful for our role, or that we’re asking for too much. And so we just don’t ask for anything at all.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Just go with the flow.

 

Melody Wilding: Right. And, sensitive people tend to be extremely hard workers, like overly responsible to a fault. And so we’ve been taught that, you know: Work hard, keep your head down, and good things will come to you.

 

Melody Wilding: And that’s just not how the working world works anymore.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Not the way of the world these days.

 

Melody Wilding: Yeah. And because, you know, on average, sensitive people tend to be a bit more introverted, we are also more reticent to put our work out there; to have visibility. So we don’t tend to naturally have as many advocates saying our names in rooms where the opportunities are happening.

 

Melody Wilding: And so you put those things together, and it makes it tougher. I work with plenty of people who will say, “I feel overlooked. I feel undervalued. I see other people getting ahead.” And it’s often because we haven’t learned these skills of being able to speak up for what we need, and combining that with the natural emotional intelligence we have, using that to have these conversations more effectively.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Okay, not to bury the lede. But we’re going to be getting to some of these specific skill sets in the workplace coming soon. And so I’ve kind of been laying the brickwork here. But I also want to talk about imposter syndrome. Okay? Imposter syndrome, I mean, I know I was full of it when I started in my business. I no longer have that. But really, you sort of have to nominate yourself, right? And so how can imposter syndrome impact people who are sensitive more so than others? And also specifically when it comes to people pursuing financial success?

 

Melody Wilding: Yeah. And I think a lot of people are familiar with the term imposter syndrome. But just so, we’re all on the same page.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Oh, good definitions! I like it.

 

Melody Wilding: Imposter syndrome is the feeling of being a fake or a fraud, despite your accomplishments. And that last piece is important because disproportionately, the people that experience imposter syndrome are already successful. And so

 

Hilary Hendershott: Oh, really?

 

Melody Wilding: Yeah, it’s the inability to internalize your success. That’s the key feature of it. And so you may do things like you brush away praise. Like if someone says, “Oh, great job in that meeting!” You say, “Oh, it was nothing. It was a team effort. Anyone could have done it. You know, no big deal.” You don’t accept it.

 

Melody Wilding: And that can lead people to not recognize the value you’re bringing to the table and your contributions.

 

Melody Wilding: It can also make you hold yourself back from opportunities. It can sometimes look like procrastination, because you want to stay under the radar. You don’t want to raise your hand for an opportunity and then not be able to follow through. And people find out you are actually faking it.

 

Melody Wilding: So you just hold back. You just sort of stay low and just keep plodding along. You don’t ask for bigger opportunities, more money, what have you.

 

Melody Wilding: And you may not speak up, because you think you need to be an expert in everything before you say something.

 

Melody Wilding: Or, you may spend a lot of money and time going after more degrees, more training, more certifications, because you think you will get to a point where those things will make you feel good enough.

 

Melody Wilding: But the bar is always moving, and so you may get that certification, and you still don’t feel validated. And so you’re always looking for the next thing. And it’s just this constant treadmill.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Oh, man, that fear of getting found out! It can be so powerful. And especially in some corporate dynamics, you know, there’s that dynamic where someone has to win every meeting? I mean, every meeting is like a battlefield. I can imagine just getting really stuck in fearful thinking.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Okay. And was it your intention in writing the book, Managing Up, which again is coming out in March–you’re all going to run out and buy it–to kind of help your Sensitive Strivers find an exodus; find a game plan for how to really get through these problems at work?

 

Melody Wilding: That’s a great way of putting it. Yeah.

 

Melody Wilding: What I noticed, so my first book, Trust Yourself, came out in 2021. And so now, a lot of people that have read that book–we’re what, almost four years out from that now–and those people have evolved. Their goals have evolved; what they want to accomplish in their careers.

 

Melody Wilding: They’ve elevated from just wanting to manage themselves and their own insecurities to now realizing actually to get to the next level of respect; recognition; rewards at work, I need to be able to influence others around me. My boss, my boss’s boss, my boss’s peers, my own peers. And so it’s sort of this next level skill set that they’re realizing they have.

 

Melody Wilding: And the other fascinating thing I noticed was that every conversation I was having came back to overthinking, people pleasing, imposter syndrome, not being able to say no.

 

Melody Wilding: And on the outside, people were blaming themselves for that. They were saying, “Well, this is because I’m a Sensitive Striver.” When I got underneath the hood, it was really, they didn’t know how to hold their own with people in authority. They would just cower and undermine themselves, or avoid and become passive, and not be assertive. And so to me it was this missing gap to help people…

 

Hilary Hendershott: Yeah.

 

Melody Wilding: Get where they want to go! And I also believe that when good-hearted people are in seats of power, that we all win.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Yes.

 

Melody Wilding: We all win when people who actually care about other people are the ones making decisions in companies. I wanted to give those people that are emotionally intelligent–and want to use it for good–a pathway to making it work for them.

 

Hilary Hendershott: I love this, and I do want to compliment you. Your book has one of the most well-crafted frameworks I’ve ever read. I mean, we go through the boundaries conversation, the networking conversation, the visibility conversation, right? And I want to kind of poke into specific of these conversations that were most fascinating for me. But I just want to acknowledge however long it took you to come up with that, it was worth it, because I was just enthralled reading through these conversations. Because it really dives deep into a specific issue we’ve all had, right?

 

Melody Wilding: That means so much to hear. I wrote like four full versions of the book. And so, you know, I think it was version two where we landed on the conversations framework.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Really.

 

Melody Wilding: So that is very validating, and it means the world.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Oh, I just love it. I just love it. Yeah. So I want to talk specifically about the visibility conversation and the money conversation. And I think this visibility thing, it really gets to the heart of everything, because it can be easy to assume, in the work environment, that if you don’t stay visible, if your mistakes; if your bad personality traits that you know are weaknesses aren’t visible, that you can fly under the radar.

 

Hilary Hendershott: But ultimately you suffer this consequence that you were talking about, which is, no one knows who the heck you are, right? No one’s going to pluck you from obscurity and give you a 2x raise, right?

 

Melody Wilding: Yup.

 

Hilary Hendershott: So this is the question from your chapter: Why does my hard work continue to go unnoticed? How do I share my accomplishments without sounding like a conceited a-hole?

 

Hilary Hendershott: What would you say to someone who’s just struggling with becoming visible, and the constant gardening that that takes? I mean self advocating, right?

 

Melody Wilding: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And you know to your point, good work does not speak for itself. You have to amplify it. And I want to offer people a mindset shift. This gets from the, you know, going from a conceited a-hole doing this, to someone who’s doing this with integrity, which is that you have an obligation to bring awareness to what you are working on.

 

Melody Wilding: And that’s because the people above you and across from you, they need transparency into what you’re doing, especially your boss. They need that information as ammo to advocate up their own chain of command so that they can say, “Look at all the great wins that we’re getting; the great progress that we’re making. Don’t you want to give us more headcount, or more budget or allocate more bonus money to this team?”

 

Melody Wilding: And so you have an obligation. This is not just to toot your own horn for your own sake, although, you know, more power to you. Please do that as well. But this is really an obligation. So I just wanna switch that in people’s head because they feel like it’s an add on to their work and it’s really not. It needs to be part and parcel of what you’re doing every day.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Well, and it’s probably specifically heavy for women, because…

 

Melody Wilding: Yeah.

 

Hilary Hendershott: That’s just I mean, maybe the generation below me didn’t get that message as much as I did, but I was supposed to shut up and be quiet and be happy with what I got.

 

Melody Wilding: Yeah. And you know, work has changed a lot, right? And I think now everyone is so busy; is so siloed and distributed that sometimes the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand’s doing, so to speak.

 

Melody Wilding: And so people may have no clue what you’re working on, and the danger in that is, they may fill in the gaps with their own story about that. They may say, “You know, I don’t even know what Hilary does around here,” right? And so you need to take control of your own narrative, to say, this is the value that I’m bringing and my contributions.

 

Hilary Hendershott: You are your own brand machine.

 

Melody Wilding: That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. And one of the easiest ways to do that is to think about sharing your wins in the context of little anecdotes or little stories.

 

Melody Wilding: And I know when I say the words like storytelling, people feel very intimidated because it feels like you have to be like a Disney level storyteller. But that’s not what I’m talking about here. It really just means applying some light structure to the way that you present what you’re accomplishing.

 

Melody Wilding: So one very simple way to do that is problem, action, solution.

 

Melody Wilding: Here was the problem or the challenge we were facing. Here was the action I took. And here’s the outcome, or the solution, from that.

 

Melody Wilding: And it helps people follow along versus you rambling or someone not understanding like, where is this going? Why am I supposed to be listening to this? And so trying to share your wins, even if it’s you know, updating a process, you can put it in the context of, “We were hitting these bottlenecks. I took the lead to make this tracker spreadsheet, and now we’ve been able to streamline this, and we’re getting the work done faster.” That’s so much more memorable to someone than if you didn’t have that.

 

Hilary Hendershott: I like this suggestion. I will say I had a marketing communications role at a global tech company in my early twenties, and it just so happened that I learned a skill that I’ve been applying ever since then, that relates to this.

 

Hilary Hendershott: My role was to look around the Internet and see every place my company had been mentioned, had got a gold star, had got a badge. We had to make sure that ended up on the website in a centralized place, and then it got communicated out in a newsletter. Right? So I’m the compiler of accolades. And it occurred to me, this is all the executives around me are doing, right? I’m doing it for the company.

 

Hilary Hendershott: And I’ve learned; I’ve used that skill set ever since in marketing my company in the media. And it never feels natural. Still, after 25 years of doing it. I don’t love doing it, but I know it must be done, because no one’s going to find out that I got mentioned in the Wall Street Journal if I don’t tell them.

 

Melody Wilding: Well, there’s something else very important under there that I want to underscore, which is that you were leveraging social proof, which is such a shortcut for trust. Because when you say, “Oh, we were featured in the Wall Street Journal,” it instantly adds credibility to you, because if the Wall Street Journal’s featuring you, well, then, you must be pretty legit. You must know what you’re doing.

 

Melody Wilding: And so you can do that at work, too, whether it’s, you know, you have a certain certification from the Project Management Institute or a stakeholder has said they really appreciated this project; you have some name brand partners that you’ve worked with. Those elements of social proof, again, they’re not bragging.

 

Melody Wilding: They’re to help other people, in their own mind, reduce the risk of believing you or working with you. And so again, it’s done in service of facilitating the relationship.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Hence, why everyone has an “As seen in” section on their website, right?

 

Melody Wilding: Exactly.

 

Hilary Hendershott: And even when I’m interviewing people for my team, I mean, usually it’s only support roles that have this, but they’ll have their own, even if it’s a one-page website. And it summarizes those kinds of things for me. I love that stuff. All right. Let’s talk about… Well, actually, I’m gonna skip to the quitting conversation just because-

 

Melody Wilding: Sure.

 

Hilary Hendershott: And then I want to go back to the money conversation.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Let’s talk about when you’re just stuck, when you know it’s time to move on. What is the strategic way to do that? How can you do that in a managing up fashion? How can that be a leap up for your career?

 

Melody Wilding: Yeah, well, and I think it’s important to realize, because I think a lot of people hear the quitting conversation like, who cares about managing up at that point? I’ve got one foot out the door.

 

Melody Wilding: And it’s important to realize that your relationships may follow you. About 30% of people boomerang back to their prior company after they leave a role. So you never know when you might come back, and you know your reputation–

 

Hilary Hendershott: Is that true? Sorry, 30%? Really?

 

Melody Wilding: Yeah, and especially during the pandemic. And I’ve seen it firsthand, I’ve had people who were even laid off from companies, and then they came back in another role.

 

Melody Wilding: And you know, in larger companies you have a bit more flexibility, because you may be in a 50,000 person organization where, yes, you’re coming back to the same company. But it’s a different department and a different team. So.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Right.

 

Melody Wilding: There’s some variability to that. But you never know.

Hilary Hendershott: I’ve never heard that number before. That is fascinating to me. Go ahead.

 

Melody Wilding: You never know who you’re going to need a referral from. Or you know, I have some clients that work in the climate world in their section of the country, and there’s only a handful of people that do that sort of work. And so they need to leave with good relationships intact.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Right, they ping between four companies their whole career.

 

Melody Wilding: That’s right, exactly. And so I think when it comes to being ready to share this news that you’re ready to move forward; you’re ready to move on. Don’t beat around the bush. Get straight to the point and say, you know, I have some important news to share. I’ve decided it’s time for me to move on. My last day will be this. And you could say, this wasn’t an easy decision. I thought long and hard about this. And keep it focused on why this is the best decision for you right now. Even if you’re leaving a toxic environment now is not the time to bring that up.

 

Melody Wilding: Keep it focused on, this is the best decision for me. Have a response ready to why, why are you leaving? And you might say, you know, I found a role that fits better with where I want to take my career. I’m interested in exploring this other sector, or this is going to give me the opportunity to focus on these skills. But you’re keeping the focus on yourself, rather than I didn’t like it here, and you were horrible to work for.

 

Hilary Hendershott: And then, is there ever a time when you get really transparent? They used to do exit interviews. Do companies still do exit interviews? And then would you really spill the tea?

 

Melody Wilding: They do exit interviews. And this is a bit of a controversial topic. So not every company does exit interviews, but I don’t think people realize you can also decline to participate in an exit interview.

 

Melody Wilding: Yeah, there’s pros and cons to that. If you are not in a place emotionally where you feel like you have the bandwidth for that, then my recommendation is to say, I would like to pass on that.

 

Melody Wilding: If you do say yes, then be prepared to go into that, again, solution focused. Keep in mind that the exit interview is for the company, and so most people want to do it because they want to get things off their chest, or they want to make things better for the colleagues they have that are still there.

 

Melody Wilding: And so even when you agree, you want to ask questions about who will be involved. How are you planning to use this information? How do you plan to act on any of the recommendations that come from it? Because that can also give you a sense of, do they take this seriously?

 

Melody Wilding: Even understanding who’s going to be involved and who the information will be shared with can make you feel better and calibrate the extent to what you do or don’t share.

 

Hilary Hendershott: That makes sense.

 

Melody Wilding: Yeah, and my recommendation is to always, in advance, brain dump. Get all of your negativity, get your first responses out and then craft them to be a bit more diplomatic. Because you want to make sure, when you’re bringing those up in the exit interview, that you are sharing your experience, but you’re also framing it as a suggestion.

 

Melody Wilding: To say, you know, when I came on to the company, I would have appreciated a bit more of a structured onboarding process. So going forward, that’s something I would suggest the company look into, is having you know, more of a 90-day plan for new employees. So you’re not saying, “I felt like I was just thrown to the wolves.” You’re giving something concrete that leaves a good taste in everybody’s mouth.

 

Hilary Hendershott: That makes sense. I never thought about that being so political. Sometimes it’s really nice to work for yourself. All very useful. Thank you.

 

Hilary Hendershott: All right, let’s get to the all-important money conversation. Ultimately companies have compensation plans; companies have times that they’ll promote, and times that they won’t. But you have your family or your personal financial needs and wants.

 

Hilary Hendershott: How can a person with a sensitive or extra emotive, emotional systems think about constantly advocating or advocating at the right times for themselves, so that their financial progression can match what they need and want it to be for their lives?

 

Melody Wilding: Mmhmm. Yeah, there’s a bit of a myth of the performance review that happens, where people think that I have to save up that conversation until the end of the year or October, when I have my review. And by that point, it’s too late.

 

Melody Wilding: And so you should be seeding your desire for advancement, whether that is a promotion; it is more money. You need to be seeding that early, so your boss can be a partner to you in that.

 

Melody Wilding: And so in your one on ones, maybe six months in advance, you say, “You know, my intention, in the next six months, is to get to the next salary band of the of the organization which would put me at this title or or this certain level. And so I would like to work with you to figure out, by December, where do I need to be? What do you need to see from me to feel confident granting that raise?”

 

Melody Wilding: And so right up front, you’re understanding your boss’s objections, you also want to understand limitations they may have. You can ask about who else may need to be involved in this decision?

 

Melody Wilding: Because there may be–especially if it’s a promotion–there may be a panel interview involved. There are political conversations happening behind the scenes where your manager may only have a certain number of promotion spots that they can give, or a certain amount of budget that they have for bonuses. And you want to know that in advance. So seeding it early is important.

 

Melody Wilding: And I also think, looking at, reading the room in the organization. So this is where that perceptiveness, being a sensitive person, comes in really handy because you can sense the subtleties of, you know, does it seem like the company is doing well? What are you hearing in all hands or quarterly reports that are coming up? How is the industry doing overall? Are you seeing that the company is hiring a lot of full time folks? Are they using words like growth and scaling? Or, you know, stability.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Or failure, and…

 

Melody Wilding: Yeah. Austerity measures. So pay attention. You have to read the room in order to discern what it makes sense to ask for.

 

Melody Wilding: And when it comes time to actually having the conversation, I’m always coaching people to frame it in terms of fairness.

 

Melody Wilding: And so, instead of saying, you know, “I want this money because I want to send my kid to private school.” Your boss is like, well, I don’t care. You need to make a case for not only the value you’ve already brought to the organization, but also the potential ROI of giving you more money.

 

Melody Wilding: So yes, this goes back to the visibility conversation, of this is what I’ve already have done.

 

Melody Wilding: But you also need to be able to say, basically, if I’m compensated at this higher level, here’s what else I would be able to take on for the organization or lead. Because that’s the calculus that your boss and the rest of the organization is going through. And frankly, the case that your boss is going to have to make to HR and those above them to get you that money.

 

Melody Wilding: And so it’s not only about what you’ve done, where you’re going, but also framing it in fairness, so framing it in terms of: “I want to make sure that my compensation accurately reflects the value I’m bringing to the organization, or that it’s commensurate with the level I’m operating at.”

 

Melody Wilding: And so you’re framing it in terms of this is kind of an even exchange. I’m not just asking for more money for the sake of it. I’m asking for more money to right the ship in terms of how I’m being compensated, which can trigger someone. It can trigger sort of the reciprocity and consistency principle that people wanna make you whole. They want to make it right. And so they’re less likely to feel defensive or offended by the request.

 

Hilary Hendershott: I myself have been the manager in that conversation. Thank you. I feel so seen. Well, obviously, Melody, this book is full of practical, actionable–not tips–but really thought frameworks. So you’re going to run out and get this book. It’s called Managing Up: How to Get What You Need From the People in Charge, and I have one more question for you, Melody, and that’s about your money. So if your money were writing you a love note, what would it be thanking you or complimenting you for?

 

Melody Wilding: It would be thanking me for giving myself options. And, within that, it would also be thanking me for learning to know how to spend it. Because being a classic Sensitive Striver, my husband likes to say I’m like a squirrel hoarding my nuts. And so I tend to be someone who is overly security minded to the point where I will not spend on something that will make my life easier because it’s like, but what if? But what if the world ends and I need this emergency fund on an emergency fund?

 

Melody Wilding: And I’ve–especially over the last 10 years or so–really embraced seeing money in my financial life as giving me more optionality and really buying back my time. So I think it would thank me for that.

 

Hilary Hendershott: Love it. I love to hear your lessons learned. Okay, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for coming on Love, your Money®.

 

Melody Wilding: Thanks so much for having me.

Disclaimer

Hendershott Wealth Management, LLC and Love, your Money do not make specific investment recommendations on Love, your Money or in any public media. Any specific mentions of funds or investments are strictly for illustrative purposes only and should not be taken as investment advice or acted upon by individual investors. The opinions expressed in this episode are those of Hilary Hendershott, CFP®, MBA.

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